CHANGE MY MIND - You do NOT have to run longer esters longer than shorter esters

[Jozifp103]

Hear me out...

Most of us know how half lives work I hope...

Let's use Deca and NPP for example...

With long ester compounds like Deca, the peak will last much longer. Let's say someone decides to only run 10 weeks of Deca and another person runs 10 weeks of NPP. No matter how you look at it, they are both getting 10 weeks of active Nandrolone whether the peak begins early in the cycle, late, or after the compound is stopped.

Lets say NPP peaks at week 3 and takes 3 weeks to clear your system, and Deca peaks at week 6 and takes 6 weeks to leave your system. The person running NPP stops at week 10 and still has another 3 weeks or so of gains before the NPP has depleted. They had peak levels from week 3 to about week 13 (10 weeks total). Now the person running Deca stops at week 10 and still has about 6 weeks of gains before the hormone depletes. So they had peak levels from about week 6 to 16 (10 weeks total). See what I'm getting at? No matter how you look at it, they are both getting 10 weeks of active Nandrolone.

With this logic, technically you could run Deca or EQ for 6 weeks and still get results. They would just occur later or after the compounds are dropped.

CHANGE MY MIND!

[MONSTRO]

Yes Deca and bolde stay in blood for longer and even without using it you keep growing. But i still believe if do cycles and stop and cycle again during the year i prefer to use NPP, but if you are a bodybuilder that use gear all year round use deca because its cheap because have more mg per ml .

MONSTRO option : Use Deca for 16 or 20 weeks and NPP the first 8 and thar way you will grow since first day.

[Vision]

Some esters in users will absorb poorly but metabolize quickly, this alone will display a different result in the blood medium, would it make it equivalent or relevant to make a comparison? Just because something could be present or detected, doesn't always make it useful by default.

Hmmmm, the topic about the usage of 1 particular ester yielding different results in users or short vs long..
Many claim one ester to be Superior to the next..This is all individual based on ones static system of checks/loops,no two individuals are the same..
This is why people argue that cypionate is much more potent than enanthate,
as this is a fragile argument at best and makes little sense,
as your muscles/receptors are only recognizing free biohormone no matter what the ester that was utilized to deploy the parenting hormone, this is where different absorption and metabolization rates comes into play to split the hairs.

These are great questions & a worthwhile topic, as there's some real truth behind this;

Let's begin with the expression of a single hormones yielding an opposite effect - rather than a positive "smooth" response to the hormone as some individuals claim/experience..
An appropriate example to begin with would be that of an alcoholic...

Why? Because of Genetics, I'll explain!

Everyone posses different gene expression,with enzymes,protein bonds,and so on..
(Enzymes are known to catalyze more then 5k biochemical types)..
Yet our bodies posses inhibitors and activator molecules that can greatly effect the activity,
by increasing or decreasing hormonal actives..
Now, that of an acholohic,it's a genetic predisposition (same applies for particular endocrines with sensitive users concerning AAS) in which one posses a group of particular enzymes that metabolize alcohol much differently compared to other individuals,
thus the effects will be much greater, and more detrimental in some individuals over the next..(Different metabolization)

Now, let's compare this to the hormones!

(Example) Testosterone can have 3 roles

1) Being testosterone as it's primary function..
2) Converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite/androgen)..
3)Converting into estrogen

Here you see this effect differs greatly by individual instances, as genetics, age or even ethnicity (in some cases),
or even sex may be a factor, whether one has a greater presence of aromatase enzymes, or even a deficiency..
Hormones/esters have various biosynthetic pathways occurring in the endorcrine,
some either or before reaching their target tissue(to control plasma levels or active compounds),
or at times after termination of their actions (inactivation and elimination)..
However many of hormones and esters are metabolized within their target tissue,
in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms serve to regulate the specificity and the amplitude of the hormonal response..

This is why "singular ester" hormone treatment is NOT designed as a one size fits all therapy...
Just an FYI: There's two main types of enzymes that act in the cleaving process of the ester in which activate the hormone...
These 2 particular "Enzymes" are esterases & hydrolysate.. These come along and cleave pieces of the ester off the hormone,
thereby releasing the active chemical (parenting steroid hormone) and allowing it to do its job (ultimately muscle building/tissue via protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance and so on )...
Now in the bloodstream which testosterone and blood born nutrients and substances circulate is recognized as the "medium".
These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression per individuals, trigger a chute of cellular interaction at receptor sites that will differ from one to the next..

People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the ester and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events..

This is why the "same/singular hormone ester" effects people differently, because there's numerous ways a hormone can yield different effects..So, depending on which transcription factors are present different genes will be transcribed in response...Thereby the reason some individuals tend to bloat and others do NOT, as some can run 250mgs of Test and begin to see signs of fluid retention or edema exert in the circular system, or particular regions of the body..Yet, there's individuals that can utilize 1000mgs of Test and remain dry..Of course diet permitting.. (but this article's about biosynthesis, and not diet)

----------------

Here's a basic read on how one ester can have MORE sides or display different results, compared to an other!

Let's use an example by talking about acne just to give a view-point of activities.. We can talk about AR's expression next!

Acne can be induced through many courses of actions, however this is simply covering the on-set by way of esters for different reasons (not estrogen, Testosterone, 19-nors, DHT etc etc).
Some uses/subjects make all sorts of claims and to a degree everyone has a valid point on or possible explanation that pertains to their particular instance, but the truth is everyone SERIOUSLY responds differently , not everyone's endocrine system will respond the same when it concerns exogenous or endogenous hormones, some people may possess more or less of "targeting cells" of "enzymes" in which these cells bear receptors, and these sites can/may be more hypersensitive or actual desensitized by way of "genetics" or other transcelluar chemical messengers..
These effects can greatly influence a slew of side effects, i.e. the topic at hand "acne by different esters"..
Esters can effect differnt mechinisms over the next, like stated above by way of activation through different transcellular groups, increasing different hormonal out-puts, sections and so on..

Take home note: Please read!
For myself, Nandrolone Phenypropionate doesn't suggest a greater aggressive display or influenced onset of acne compared to it's counter part "Decanoate"...(Decanoate triggers a stronger and more aggressive state of acne for myself, and many others, compared to NPP, same applies for other hormones with different esterfication!

Why is that? believe it or not besides the hormone , the ester alone plays a pivotal role as esters all possess a different molecular weight, with this said the presence of fatty acids may vary, and this alone has a unique influence on sebaceous lipids which is directly associated specific accumulation of squalene and the presence of fatty acids and lipids yielding a manifestations in increase of sebum..
So, can one particular hormone be more responsible for sebum production verse an other? This will be individually based..
How about the ester, does this matter although it's still the same hormone? Yes, the ester can have direct and indirect effects on different people, depending on the amount of presence enzymes, sensitivity, receptors and so on.. Ester effects are truly multi-factorial by way of activating, deactivating of different cellular groups, especially - lipids as some may be reduced in some subjects such as free fatty acids or in contrast, there could be a greater influx with triglycerides and wax/cholesterol esters could be increased inducing acne, especially in those who are already sensitive and prone/predisposed..

[Jozifp103]

Some esters in users will absorb poorly but metabolize quickly, this alone will display a different result in the blood medium, would it make it equivalent or relevant to make a comparison? Just because something could be present or detected, doesn't always make it useful by default.

Hmmmm, the topic about the usage of 1 particular ester yielding different results in users or short vs long..
Many claim one ester to be Superior to the next..This is all individual based on ones static system of checks/loops,no two individuals are the same..
This is why people argue that cypionate is much more potent than enanthate,
as this is a fragile argument at best and makes little sense,
as your muscles/receptors are only recognizing free biohormone no matter what the ester that was utilized to deploy the parenting hormone, this is where different absorption and metabolization rates comes into play to split the hairs.

These are great questions & a worthwhile topic, as there's some real truth behind this;

Let's begin with the expression of a single hormones yielding an opposite effect - rather than a positive "smooth" response to the hormone as some individuals claim/experience..
An appropriate example to begin with would be that of an alcoholic...

Why? Because of Genetics, I'll explain!

Everyone posses different gene expression,with enzymes,protein bonds,and so on..
(Enzymes are known to catalyze more then 5k biochemical types)..
Yet our bodies posses inhibitors and activator molecules that can greatly effect the activity,
by increasing or decreasing hormonal actives..
Now, that of an acholohic,it's a genetic predisposition (same applies for particular endocrines with sensitive users concerning AAS) in which one posses a group of particular enzymes that metabolize alcohol much differently compared to other individuals,
thus the effects will be much greater, and more detrimental in some individuals over the next..(Different metabolization)

Now, let's compare this to the hormones!

(Example) Testosterone can have 3 roles

1) Being testosterone as it's primary function..
2) Converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite/androgen)..
3)Converting into estrogen

Here you see this effect differs greatly by individual instances, as genetics, age or even ethnicity (in some cases),
or even sex may be a factor, whether one has a greater presence of aromatase enzymes, or even a deficiency..
Hormones/esters have various biosynthetic pathways occurring in the endorcrine,
some either or before reaching their target tissue(to control plasma levels or active compounds),
or at times after termination of their actions (inactivation and elimination)..
However many of hormones and esters are metabolized within their target tissue,
in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms serve to regulate the specificity and the amplitude of the hormonal response..

This is why "singular ester" hormone treatment is NOT designed as a one size fits all therapy...
Just an FYI: There's two main types of enzymes that act in the cleaving process of the ester in which activate the hormone...
These 2 particular "Enzymes" are esterases & hydrolysate.. These come along and cleave pieces of the ester off the hormone,
thereby releasing the active chemical (parenting steroid hormone) and allowing it to do its job (ultimately muscle building/tissue via protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance and so on )...
Now in the bloodstream which testosterone and blood born nutrients and substances circulate is recognized as the "medium".
These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression per individuals, trigger a chute of cellular interaction at receptor sites that will differ from one to the next..

People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the ester and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events..

This is why the "same/singular hormone ester" effects people differently, because there's numerous ways a hormone can yield different effects..So, depending on which transcription factors are present different genes will be transcribed in response...Thereby the reason some individuals tend to bloat and others do NOT, as some can run 250mgs of Test and begin to see signs of fluid retention or edema exert in the circular system, or particular regions of the body..Yet, there's individuals that can utilize 1000mgs of Test and remain dry..Of course diet permitting.. (but this article's about biosynthesis, and not diet)

----------------

Here's a basic read on how one ester can have MORE sides or display different results, compared to an other!

Let's use an example by talking about acne just to give a view-point of activities.. We can talk about AR's expression next!

Acne can be induced through many courses of actions, however this is simply covering the on-set by way of esters for different reasons (not estrogen, Testosterone, 19-nors, DHT etc etc).
Some uses/subjects make all sorts of claims and to a degree everyone has a valid point on or possible explanation that pertains to their particular instance, but the truth is everyone SERIOUSLY responds differently , not everyone's endocrine system will respond the same when it concerns exogenous or endogenous hormones, some people may possess more or less of "targeting cells" of "enzymes" in which these cells bear receptors, and these sites can/may be more hypersensitive or actual desensitized by way of "genetics" or other transcelluar chemical messengers..
These effects can greatly influence a slew of side effects, i.e. the topic at hand "acne by different esters"..
Esters can effect differnt mechinisms over the next, like stated above by way of activation through different transcellular groups, increasing different hormonal out-puts, sections and so on..

Take home note: Please read!
For myself, Nandrolone Phenypropionate doesn't suggest a greater aggressive display or influenced onset of acne compared to it's counter part "Decanoate"...(Decanoate triggers a stronger and more aggressive state of acne for myself, and many others, compared to NPP, same applies for other hormones with different esterfication!

Why is that? believe it or not besides the hormone , the ester alone plays a pivotal role as esters all possess a different molecular weight, with this said the presence of fatty acids may vary, and this alone has a unique influence on sebaceous lipids which is directly associated specific accumulation of squalene and the presence of fatty acids and lipids yielding a manifestations in increase of sebum..
So, can one particular hormone be more responsible for sebum production verse an other? This will be individually based..
How about the ester, does this matter although it's still the same hormone? Yes, the ester can have direct and indirect effects on different people, depending on the amount of presence enzymes, sensitivity, receptors and so on.. Ester effects are truly multi-factorial by way of activating, deactivating of different cellular groups, especially - lipids as some may be reduced in some subjects such as free fatty acids or in contrast, there could be a greater influx with triglycerides and wax/cholesterol esters could be increased inducing acne, especially in those who are already sensitive and prone/predisposed..

I knew you'd have some solid research on this in your archives. Thanks for this bro this is good stuff. I just have to read it a couple more times to take it all in and interpret it.

[Vision]

Some esters in users will absorb poorly but metabolize quickly, this alone will display a different result in the blood medium, would it make it equivalent or relevant to make a comparison? Just because something could be present or detected, doesn't always make it useful by default.

Hmmmm, the topic about the usage of 1 particular ester yielding different results in users or short vs long..
Many claim one ester to be Superior to the next..This is all individual based on ones static system of checks/loops,no two individuals are the same..
This is why people argue that cypionate is much more potent than enanthate,
as this is a fragile argument at best and makes little sense,
as your muscles/receptors are only recognizing free biohormone no matter what the ester that was utilized to deploy the parenting hormone, this is where different absorption and metabolization rates comes into play to split the hairs.

These are great questions & a worthwhile topic, as there's some real truth behind this;

Let's begin with the expression of a single hormones yielding an opposite effect - rather than a positive "smooth" response to the hormone as some individuals claim/experience..
An appropriate example to begin with would be that of an alcoholic...

Why? Because of Genetics, I'll explain!

Everyone posses different gene expression,with enzymes,protein bonds,and so on..
(Enzymes are known to catalyze more then 5k biochemical types)..
Yet our bodies posses inhibitors and activator molecules that can greatly effect the activity,
by increasing or decreasing hormonal actives..
Now, that of an acholohic,it's a genetic predisposition (same applies for particular endocrines with sensitive users concerning AAS) in which one posses a group of particular enzymes that metabolize alcohol much differently compared to other individuals,
thus the effects will be much greater, and more detrimental in some individuals over the next..(Different metabolization)

Now, let's compare this to the hormones!

(Example) Testosterone can have 3 roles

1) Being testosterone as it's primary function..
2) Converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite/androgen)..
3)Converting into estrogen

Here you see this effect differs greatly by individual instances, as genetics, age or even ethnicity (in some cases),
or even sex may be a factor, whether one has a greater presence of aromatase enzymes, or even a deficiency..
Hormones/esters have various biosynthetic pathways occurring in the endorcrine,
some either or before reaching their target tissue(to control plasma levels or active compounds),
or at times after termination of their actions (inactivation and elimination)..
However many of hormones and esters are metabolized within their target tissue,
in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms serve to regulate the specificity and the amplitude of the hormonal response..

This is why "singular ester" hormone treatment is NOT designed as a one size fits all therapy...
Just an FYI: There's two main types of enzymes that act in the cleaving process of the ester in which activate the hormone...
These 2 particular "Enzymes" are esterases & hydrolysate.. These come along and cleave pieces of the ester off the hormone,
thereby releasing the active chemical (parenting steroid hormone) and allowing it to do its job (ultimately muscle building/tissue via protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance and so on )...
Now in the bloodstream which testosterone and blood born nutrients and substances circulate is recognized as the "medium".
These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression per individuals, trigger a chute of cellular interaction at receptor sites that will differ from one to the next..

People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the ester and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events..

This is why the "same/singular hormone ester" effects people differently, because there's numerous ways a hormone can yield different effects..So, depending on which transcription factors are present different genes will be transcribed in response...Thereby the reason some individuals tend to bloat and others do NOT, as some can run 250mgs of Test and begin to see signs of fluid retention or edema exert in the circular system, or particular regions of the body..Yet, there's individuals that can utilize 1000mgs of Test and remain dry..Of course diet permitting.. (but this article's about biosynthesis, and not diet)

----------------

Here's a basic read on how one ester can have MORE sides or display different results, compared to an other!

Let's use an example by talking about acne just to give a view-point of activities.. We can talk about AR's expression next!

Acne can be induced through many courses of actions, however this is simply covering the on-set by way of esters for different reasons (not estrogen, Testosterone, 19-nors, DHT etc etc).
Some uses/subjects make all sorts of claims and to a degree everyone has a valid point on or possible explanation that pertains to their particular instance, but the truth is everyone SERIOUSLY responds differently , not everyone's endocrine system will respond the same when it concerns exogenous or endogenous hormones, some people may possess more or less of "targeting cells" of "enzymes" in which these cells bear receptors, and these sites can/may be more hypersensitive or actual desensitized by way of "genetics" or other transcelluar chemical messengers..
These effects can greatly influence a slew of side effects, i.e. the topic at hand "acne by different esters"..
Esters can effect differnt mechinisms over the next, like stated above by way of activation through different transcellular groups, increasing different hormonal out-puts, sections and so on..

Take home note: Please read!
For myself, Nandrolone Phenypropionate doesn't suggest a greater aggressive display or influenced onset of acne compared to it's counter part "Decanoate"...(Decanoate triggers a stronger and more aggressive state of acne for myself, and many others, compared to NPP, same applies for other hormones with different esterfication!

Why is that? believe it or not besides the hormone , the ester alone plays a pivotal role as esters all possess a different molecular weight, with this said the presence of fatty acids may vary, and this alone has a unique influence on sebaceous lipids which is directly associated specific accumulation of squalene and the presence of fatty acids and lipids yielding a manifestations in increase of sebum..
So, can one particular hormone be more responsible for sebum production verse an other? This will be individually based..
How about the ester, does this matter although it's still the same hormone? Yes, the ester can have direct and indirect effects on different people, depending on the amount of presence enzymes, sensitivity, receptors and so on.. Ester effects are truly multi-factorial by way of activating, deactivating of different cellular groups, especially - lipids as some may be reduced in some subjects such as free fatty acids or in contrast, there could be a greater influx with triglycerides and wax/cholesterol esters could be increased inducing acne, especially in those who are already sensitive and prone/predisposed..

I knew you'd have some solid research on this in your archives. Thanks for this bro this is good stuff. I just have to read it a couple more times to take it all in and interpret it.

in a nut shell it just talks about different responses.. everyone talks about half life and harp on serum levels, yet no one considers individual response. this is a reason why the have hormones like test in many carrier forms, like pellets, creams, gels, and esters, because people will have different peeks compares to one delivery method over an other. Heck, some guys do amazing on gels with little to no estro issues..

[MONSTRO]

Thats why this is a fantastic sport , even you cant do the same prep every time and work ( body change ) . We must understand body is not intented to be muscular and he fights with you to not grow more. You have to be smart to keep growing.

[Cmarsh828]

It seems those who partake in this lifestyle aren’t looking to stay on and want to PCT after running either one of these and that’s what scares them. They want to start PCT let’s say 2 weeks after last injection but if you’re still benefiting 6 weeks post injections it scares them away based on recommendations.

I researched low dose purely for joints on Decca plus my job could cause me to go straight into PCT. prob the main reason why I haven’t pulled the trigger doing 50-100mg if Decca. I dont need it for muscle building as this is a hobby not a way of life