So this compound I have been up in the air about running for a very very long time. I wanted to make this thread to get first hand users experience with it. How did it enhance your cycle? What was the sweet spot for you? Was it worth it in the end and would you run it again.
I feel like this compound isn’t used much in the community or maybe just not talked about much?? So before I dive into this for myself I want to hear some feedback. I’ll be updating this with some data soon as well!
The king of kings when it comes to test?
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A.font817
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The king of kings when it comes to test?
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Phill
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Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
Androgenic: 650
Anabolic: 2,300
Standard: Testosterone Propionate
Chemical name: 19-norandrost-4-en-3-one-17beta-ol 17beta-hydroxy-estr-4-en-3-one
Trestolone, also known as 7α-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) or 7α-methylestr-4-en-17β-ol-3-one, is a synthetic androgen-anabolic steroid (AAS) derivative of Nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) . It is used for its strong anabolic properties on the musculoskeletal system and is a candidate drug for use as a male hormonal contraceptive method. In males, regular administration of sufficient quantities of Trestolone induces a state of reversible sterility. Trestolone is used in the form of the acetate ester, Trestolone Acetate, which is administered intramuscularly.
Trestolone is a compound that is an experimental contraceptive treatment and is not yet legally commercially available. Safety and efficacy are currently being evaluated in scientific studies, supported by the Population Council.
As already mentioned, MENT is a derivative of Nandrolone, but despite the strong structural similarity with the starting molecule it differs from this for the presence of a 7-alpha-methyl bond, which prevents the molecule from being 5 alpha reduced, in addition to strengthening the androgen bond. Methylation in C-7 increases the overall potency of the steroid. The reason why a methylation increases the potency of the steroid is usually caused by one or more factors, in particular an increased resistance to hepatic metabolism (inactivation) or a reduced binding affinity with the transport proteins. In the case of MENT, we see a steroid with a relatively fast metabolic breakdown, but with no binding affinity for SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin).
Consequently, its reduced binding to serum transport proteins appears to be partly responsible for the potency of MENT. During testing in 1963, scientists reported an anabolic effect that was between 3.5 and 23 times greater than Testosterone, while being only 3-6 times more androgenic.
When studied on primates in 1998, it was shown to have 10 times the anabolic potency of testosterone, with only 2 times the stimulating action on the prostate. Its binding affinity for the androgen receptor was investigated a year later, and provided further explanation for the strong anabolic effect of this steroid. Here, MENT has been shown to bind to the androgen receptor more strongly than Testosterone, Nandrolone, or Dihydrotestosterone.
MENT (methylnortestosterone acetate, albeit known as Trestolone) was first described in 1963. The early 1960s were the heyday of anabolic steroid development, with new compounds being introduced in the trade journals. almost every week. Like a large number of effective steroids studied during that time, however, MENT did not go the way of becoming a commercial pharmaceutical product. For about four decades it sat gathering dust on the shelves, alongside many other effective but anonymous compounds. Historically, the lack of early financial support has been a death sentence for anabolic steroids. If a company is not there originally, to fund the millions needed to develop into a real prescription product, it does virtually nothing of the molecule. There was simply no money to invest in MENT in 1960, and it fell by the wayside. For a long time this agent remained in the "nowhere" in the world of steroids.
But things changed for MENT around the turn of the next century, in a very dramatic way. On October 30, 2000, international pharmaceutical giant Schering AG made an announcement to pubHc where it claimed to have entered into a partnership for research, development, and hinting at the market introduction of methylnortestosterone for use as a hormonal contraceptive. This follows several years of sporadic but positive studies on this agent. The gears were thus set in motion, and this old steroid, which scientists had ignored for more than thirty years, was suddenly put in the midst of an outbreak of new research and speculation they had never seen before. In their press release, Schering AG made the promise of a new androgen that offers the anabolic and endocrine benefits of injectable testosterone, but without a possible hypertrophic action on the prostate, and greater comfort for the patient. In other words, Schering is saying that MENT appears to be an easier compound to administer and equally useful as testosterone, without the same androgenic problems associated with it.
Schering's principle attraction towards MENT is probably not necessarily due to its potency, but to its ability to reproduce the positive effects of Testosterone on muscle mass and male sexual functions, minimizing the stimulating action on the prostate. Prostate cancer and benign enlargement of the prostate are very common problems among men in the United States, and both diseases are fueled at least in part by androgens. This has led to much caution when it comes to androgen replacement therapy in older men. Although medical data are still inconclusive in this regard, many doctors fear that the androgenicity of Testosterone can lead to negative effects. After all, the increases in PSA values with the use of Testosterone in older men are well documented. (4) Perhaps MENT was introduced to alleviate this concern. Noting MENT's lower relative androgenicity, researchers concluded more than a decade ago that it may be a far better option for hormone replacement therapy. To quote researchers from the NY Center for Biomedical Research, "We concluded that using MENT instead of T for androgen replacement therapy could have health-promoting effects, reducing the appearance of prostate disease." This is quite a statement, especially when we remember that it concerns the use of a synthetic anabolic steroid.
Looking a little closer at some of the recent studies conducted on MENT, we see an overall trend of success and relative safety. Perhaps the most noteworthy study to review is the international clinical study which was conducted between 2002 and 2003. (4) The study involved the use of MENT implants as long-term contraceptives in males. In this experiment, thirty-six men were enrolled in three separate clinics residing in Germany, Chile, and the Dominican Republic (12 men from each nation). The study examined the use of the implants for 6, 9, or 12 months, and the periodic examinations necessary to measure the effects and potential risks. Three different dosages were used, which consisted of administering one, two or four implants at the time of the start of the study. Each implant has been designed to deliver approximately 400mcg of steroid per day, which is equivalent to daily doses of 0.4mg, 0.8mg, or 1.6mg of steroid. The release rate is slowly reduced but nevertheless reaches around 200mcg per day after a year.
The results of the clinical study were very promising. Four implants of MENT (from 1.6mg / day) suppressed spermatogenesis with efficacy similar to that measured with Testosterone implants, Testosterone Enanthate injections, and Testosterone Undecanoate injections (all of which have been successfully investigated as contraceptives). MENT was able to produce azoospermia at 82 °; 0 of treated subjects, a figure that was actually higher than that reported with 200 mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week (which produced azoospermia at 65-660 / 0 of normal subjects of male sex in 6 months). As for the negative side effects, they were few in the subjects. Two subjects noted an increase in blood pressure that went outside the normal range, and one was forced to discontinue the study due to this (although no chronic effects were noted). In other cases, there was typically only a very small increase in systolic blood pressure (+4.8), and no significant changes in lipids (including cholesterol and triglycerides) or PSA values. Furthermore, the volume of the prostate was slightly reduced (not increased) in all groups. Liver enzymes were slightly elevated but remained within the normal range in all subjects. The average time to resume normal sperm production after the interruption was 3 months, similar to that reported by a 1990 World Health Organization study with 200 mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate. Overall, MENT did its job admirably, with a very noticeable (acceptable) level of effect, and minimal side effects. What's more, the drug can be effective when it is implanted more infrequently, once a year.
Another study of interest looked at the ability of MENT implants to restore sexual behavior and function in men with hypogonadism (low testosterone). This, of course, is one of the main goals of androgen replacement therapy. This investigation took place in two clinics, one based in Ireland and the other in Hong Kong. Twenty men participated, 10 from each clinic. The study was a double-cross investigation comparing the effects of Testosterone Enanthate (200mg every 3 weeks) to those of MENT's two implants (which provide 0.8mg of the drug per day) .This means that each of the twenty men in the study had the opportunity to use both drugs, which were taken on two separate occasions with a break period. Only small differences in response were noted between MENT and conventional androgen replacement therapy, and both drugs were effective in restoring sexual behavior and erection frequency. MENT, at a dose of 2 implants administering about 0.8mg of drug per day, has proven to be an effective option for androgen replacement therapy.
MENT is subject to aromatization, to be precise, it aromatizes 7-alpha-methyl-estradiol in a form of estradiol with a high biological power. (14) This increases the characteristics of MENT as a potential steroid for a “Bulk” phase due to the increased proliferation of estrogen receptors, better glucose utilization, and increased secretion of GH and IGF-1. The consequences of this estrogenic activity could be a cause of the greater potency of MENT (960 anabolic / 165 androgenic) compared to Trenbolone (600 anabolic / 185 androgenic on Testosterone), as well as its suppressive activity. Gynecomastia is a possible side effect with the use of this AAS, such as water retention and fat accumulation with a female model. This happens especially with high dosages and when AAS is combined with other flavoring compounds. The use of an aromatase inhibitor in subjects sensitive to aromatization is a functional practice.
It should be noted that studies have also shown that MENT binds strongly to the progesterone receptor, so much so that it produces progestin effects on the weight of the uterus in immature rabbits. (4) Further examination, however, confuses this determination. The effects of MENT on the weight of the uterus were not blocked by the concomitant use of an anti-progestogen (Mifepristone) or anti-estrogen, suggesting that neither progestin nor estrogenic activity were responsible for this effect. Given the use of only this limited model, and the known binding of MENT to the progesterone receptor, and the tendency of Nandrolone-derived drugs to offer at least some progestogenic activity, moderate activity cannot be neglected for the time of hiring.
Side effects associated with Progesterone are similar to those of estrogen, including negative feedback of inhibition of Testosterone production and an increased rate of fat accumulation. Progestogens also increase the stimulating effect of estrogen on the growth of breast tissue. There seems to be a strong synergy between these two hormones, so that gynecomastia could also occur with the help of progestogens, without excessive levels of estrogen. The use of an anti-estrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this alteration, is often sufficient to mitigate the gynecomastia caused by Nandrolone. The rise in Prolactin is another possible consequence.
The use of anti-prolactin drugs should be considered only when, through special blood tests, hyperprolactinemia has been ascertained. Quite often, adequate estrogen control is more than enough.
The effect of prolonged administration of MENT on cortisol metabolism has been studied in several patients. The decrease in urinary excretion of 17-hydroxy corticosteroids occurred regularly. Chromatographic analyzes of urinary corticoids revealed that urinary excretion decreased by exclusively involving cortisol metabolites, while corticosterone metabolites were excreted at normal levels. A chromatographic study also showed a deterioration in the conjugation of Tetrahydrocorticoids.
Studies with 4-14C-cortisol in patients treated with MENT showed increased levels of transcortin, cortisol transport globulin, reduced cortisol inactivation rate and low cortisol production. From these results it is concluded that a reduction in the excretion of 17 hydroxycorticoid follows which reflects a low production of cortisol, at least in part secondary to a reduced rate of cortisol-inactivation, which in turn must be attributable either to an inhibition or to a defect in the enzyme systems of the liver involved in corticoid-inactivation
MENT is a steroid with a fairly significant androgenic activity even if it is clearly lower than its anabolic activity. This makes this molecule the cause of possible androgenic side effects which can include oily skin, acne, body and facial hair growth, and adrogenetic alopecia. Women should be warned about the potential virilizing effects. These can include deep voice, menstrual irregularities, changes in skin texture, facial hair growth, and clitoral enlargement. The relative androgenicity of MENT is not affected by finasteride or dutasteride: note that a well understood function of methylation in C-7 is to block the 5-alpha reduction of the steroid. As such, this Nandrolone derivative cannot be converted to a "dihydro" metabolite
With Nandrolone and most of its analogs, 5-alpha-reduction means the creation of a less androgenic steroid. Dihydronandrolone is weaker than Nandrolone, so its activity is reduced in target tissues. Not being able to convert MENT to a weaker steroid, the compound will keep its characteristics unchanged, and there will be no influence on the relative androgenicity of MENT. High androgenicity has been found to be a desirable trait during development as it allows MENT to more effectively support the development of male sexual characteristics and libido than Nandrolone which is a weak androgen.
As mentioned, MENT is not a methylated compound in C-17, and is not known to have hepatotoxic effects. Liver toxicity could be a possibility with high doses.
Anabolic: 2,300
Standard: Testosterone Propionate
Chemical name: 19-norandrost-4-en-3-one-17beta-ol 17beta-hydroxy-estr-4-en-3-one
Trestolone, also known as 7α-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) or 7α-methylestr-4-en-17β-ol-3-one, is a synthetic androgen-anabolic steroid (AAS) derivative of Nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) . It is used for its strong anabolic properties on the musculoskeletal system and is a candidate drug for use as a male hormonal contraceptive method. In males, regular administration of sufficient quantities of Trestolone induces a state of reversible sterility. Trestolone is used in the form of the acetate ester, Trestolone Acetate, which is administered intramuscularly.
Trestolone is a compound that is an experimental contraceptive treatment and is not yet legally commercially available. Safety and efficacy are currently being evaluated in scientific studies, supported by the Population Council.
As already mentioned, MENT is a derivative of Nandrolone, but despite the strong structural similarity with the starting molecule it differs from this for the presence of a 7-alpha-methyl bond, which prevents the molecule from being 5 alpha reduced, in addition to strengthening the androgen bond. Methylation in C-7 increases the overall potency of the steroid. The reason why a methylation increases the potency of the steroid is usually caused by one or more factors, in particular an increased resistance to hepatic metabolism (inactivation) or a reduced binding affinity with the transport proteins. In the case of MENT, we see a steroid with a relatively fast metabolic breakdown, but with no binding affinity for SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin).
Consequently, its reduced binding to serum transport proteins appears to be partly responsible for the potency of MENT. During testing in 1963, scientists reported an anabolic effect that was between 3.5 and 23 times greater than Testosterone, while being only 3-6 times more androgenic.
When studied on primates in 1998, it was shown to have 10 times the anabolic potency of testosterone, with only 2 times the stimulating action on the prostate. Its binding affinity for the androgen receptor was investigated a year later, and provided further explanation for the strong anabolic effect of this steroid. Here, MENT has been shown to bind to the androgen receptor more strongly than Testosterone, Nandrolone, or Dihydrotestosterone.
MENT (methylnortestosterone acetate, albeit known as Trestolone) was first described in 1963. The early 1960s were the heyday of anabolic steroid development, with new compounds being introduced in the trade journals. almost every week. Like a large number of effective steroids studied during that time, however, MENT did not go the way of becoming a commercial pharmaceutical product. For about four decades it sat gathering dust on the shelves, alongside many other effective but anonymous compounds. Historically, the lack of early financial support has been a death sentence for anabolic steroids. If a company is not there originally, to fund the millions needed to develop into a real prescription product, it does virtually nothing of the molecule. There was simply no money to invest in MENT in 1960, and it fell by the wayside. For a long time this agent remained in the "nowhere" in the world of steroids.
But things changed for MENT around the turn of the next century, in a very dramatic way. On October 30, 2000, international pharmaceutical giant Schering AG made an announcement to pubHc where it claimed to have entered into a partnership for research, development, and hinting at the market introduction of methylnortestosterone for use as a hormonal contraceptive. This follows several years of sporadic but positive studies on this agent. The gears were thus set in motion, and this old steroid, which scientists had ignored for more than thirty years, was suddenly put in the midst of an outbreak of new research and speculation they had never seen before. In their press release, Schering AG made the promise of a new androgen that offers the anabolic and endocrine benefits of injectable testosterone, but without a possible hypertrophic action on the prostate, and greater comfort for the patient. In other words, Schering is saying that MENT appears to be an easier compound to administer and equally useful as testosterone, without the same androgenic problems associated with it.
Schering's principle attraction towards MENT is probably not necessarily due to its potency, but to its ability to reproduce the positive effects of Testosterone on muscle mass and male sexual functions, minimizing the stimulating action on the prostate. Prostate cancer and benign enlargement of the prostate are very common problems among men in the United States, and both diseases are fueled at least in part by androgens. This has led to much caution when it comes to androgen replacement therapy in older men. Although medical data are still inconclusive in this regard, many doctors fear that the androgenicity of Testosterone can lead to negative effects. After all, the increases in PSA values with the use of Testosterone in older men are well documented. (4) Perhaps MENT was introduced to alleviate this concern. Noting MENT's lower relative androgenicity, researchers concluded more than a decade ago that it may be a far better option for hormone replacement therapy. To quote researchers from the NY Center for Biomedical Research, "We concluded that using MENT instead of T for androgen replacement therapy could have health-promoting effects, reducing the appearance of prostate disease." This is quite a statement, especially when we remember that it concerns the use of a synthetic anabolic steroid.
Looking a little closer at some of the recent studies conducted on MENT, we see an overall trend of success and relative safety. Perhaps the most noteworthy study to review is the international clinical study which was conducted between 2002 and 2003. (4) The study involved the use of MENT implants as long-term contraceptives in males. In this experiment, thirty-six men were enrolled in three separate clinics residing in Germany, Chile, and the Dominican Republic (12 men from each nation). The study examined the use of the implants for 6, 9, or 12 months, and the periodic examinations necessary to measure the effects and potential risks. Three different dosages were used, which consisted of administering one, two or four implants at the time of the start of the study. Each implant has been designed to deliver approximately 400mcg of steroid per day, which is equivalent to daily doses of 0.4mg, 0.8mg, or 1.6mg of steroid. The release rate is slowly reduced but nevertheless reaches around 200mcg per day after a year.
The results of the clinical study were very promising. Four implants of MENT (from 1.6mg / day) suppressed spermatogenesis with efficacy similar to that measured with Testosterone implants, Testosterone Enanthate injections, and Testosterone Undecanoate injections (all of which have been successfully investigated as contraceptives). MENT was able to produce azoospermia at 82 °; 0 of treated subjects, a figure that was actually higher than that reported with 200 mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week (which produced azoospermia at 65-660 / 0 of normal subjects of male sex in 6 months). As for the negative side effects, they were few in the subjects. Two subjects noted an increase in blood pressure that went outside the normal range, and one was forced to discontinue the study due to this (although no chronic effects were noted). In other cases, there was typically only a very small increase in systolic blood pressure (+4.8), and no significant changes in lipids (including cholesterol and triglycerides) or PSA values. Furthermore, the volume of the prostate was slightly reduced (not increased) in all groups. Liver enzymes were slightly elevated but remained within the normal range in all subjects. The average time to resume normal sperm production after the interruption was 3 months, similar to that reported by a 1990 World Health Organization study with 200 mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate. Overall, MENT did its job admirably, with a very noticeable (acceptable) level of effect, and minimal side effects. What's more, the drug can be effective when it is implanted more infrequently, once a year.
Another study of interest looked at the ability of MENT implants to restore sexual behavior and function in men with hypogonadism (low testosterone). This, of course, is one of the main goals of androgen replacement therapy. This investigation took place in two clinics, one based in Ireland and the other in Hong Kong. Twenty men participated, 10 from each clinic. The study was a double-cross investigation comparing the effects of Testosterone Enanthate (200mg every 3 weeks) to those of MENT's two implants (which provide 0.8mg of the drug per day) .This means that each of the twenty men in the study had the opportunity to use both drugs, which were taken on two separate occasions with a break period. Only small differences in response were noted between MENT and conventional androgen replacement therapy, and both drugs were effective in restoring sexual behavior and erection frequency. MENT, at a dose of 2 implants administering about 0.8mg of drug per day, has proven to be an effective option for androgen replacement therapy.
MENT is subject to aromatization, to be precise, it aromatizes 7-alpha-methyl-estradiol in a form of estradiol with a high biological power. (14) This increases the characteristics of MENT as a potential steroid for a “Bulk” phase due to the increased proliferation of estrogen receptors, better glucose utilization, and increased secretion of GH and IGF-1. The consequences of this estrogenic activity could be a cause of the greater potency of MENT (960 anabolic / 165 androgenic) compared to Trenbolone (600 anabolic / 185 androgenic on Testosterone), as well as its suppressive activity. Gynecomastia is a possible side effect with the use of this AAS, such as water retention and fat accumulation with a female model. This happens especially with high dosages and when AAS is combined with other flavoring compounds. The use of an aromatase inhibitor in subjects sensitive to aromatization is a functional practice.
It should be noted that studies have also shown that MENT binds strongly to the progesterone receptor, so much so that it produces progestin effects on the weight of the uterus in immature rabbits. (4) Further examination, however, confuses this determination. The effects of MENT on the weight of the uterus were not blocked by the concomitant use of an anti-progestogen (Mifepristone) or anti-estrogen, suggesting that neither progestin nor estrogenic activity were responsible for this effect. Given the use of only this limited model, and the known binding of MENT to the progesterone receptor, and the tendency of Nandrolone-derived drugs to offer at least some progestogenic activity, moderate activity cannot be neglected for the time of hiring.
Side effects associated with Progesterone are similar to those of estrogen, including negative feedback of inhibition of Testosterone production and an increased rate of fat accumulation. Progestogens also increase the stimulating effect of estrogen on the growth of breast tissue. There seems to be a strong synergy between these two hormones, so that gynecomastia could also occur with the help of progestogens, without excessive levels of estrogen. The use of an anti-estrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this alteration, is often sufficient to mitigate the gynecomastia caused by Nandrolone. The rise in Prolactin is another possible consequence.
The use of anti-prolactin drugs should be considered only when, through special blood tests, hyperprolactinemia has been ascertained. Quite often, adequate estrogen control is more than enough.
The effect of prolonged administration of MENT on cortisol metabolism has been studied in several patients. The decrease in urinary excretion of 17-hydroxy corticosteroids occurred regularly. Chromatographic analyzes of urinary corticoids revealed that urinary excretion decreased by exclusively involving cortisol metabolites, while corticosterone metabolites were excreted at normal levels. A chromatographic study also showed a deterioration in the conjugation of Tetrahydrocorticoids.
Studies with 4-14C-cortisol in patients treated with MENT showed increased levels of transcortin, cortisol transport globulin, reduced cortisol inactivation rate and low cortisol production. From these results it is concluded that a reduction in the excretion of 17 hydroxycorticoid follows which reflects a low production of cortisol, at least in part secondary to a reduced rate of cortisol-inactivation, which in turn must be attributable either to an inhibition or to a defect in the enzyme systems of the liver involved in corticoid-inactivation
MENT is a steroid with a fairly significant androgenic activity even if it is clearly lower than its anabolic activity. This makes this molecule the cause of possible androgenic side effects which can include oily skin, acne, body and facial hair growth, and adrogenetic alopecia. Women should be warned about the potential virilizing effects. These can include deep voice, menstrual irregularities, changes in skin texture, facial hair growth, and clitoral enlargement. The relative androgenicity of MENT is not affected by finasteride or dutasteride: note that a well understood function of methylation in C-7 is to block the 5-alpha reduction of the steroid. As such, this Nandrolone derivative cannot be converted to a "dihydro" metabolite
With Nandrolone and most of its analogs, 5-alpha-reduction means the creation of a less androgenic steroid. Dihydronandrolone is weaker than Nandrolone, so its activity is reduced in target tissues. Not being able to convert MENT to a weaker steroid, the compound will keep its characteristics unchanged, and there will be no influence on the relative androgenicity of MENT. High androgenicity has been found to be a desirable trait during development as it allows MENT to more effectively support the development of male sexual characteristics and libido than Nandrolone which is a weak androgen.
As mentioned, MENT is not a methylated compound in C-17, and is not known to have hepatotoxic effects. Liver toxicity could be a possibility with high doses.
-
MONSTRO
- Posts: 1581
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 11:42 pm
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
Anyone here with experience on this super strong compound? He can replaces testosterone? or is used with?
-
Phill
- Posts: 1648
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:59 pm
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
I have used it both with and without testosterone
I didn't notice much difference.
However, it is difficult for me to control estro with this king, perhaps for this reason, better without test or at low doses.
If you can tolerate sides, this is definitely a great mass builder.
-
A.font817
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:16 am
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
I’m going to be trying it with low dose Cyp 200mg thinking my ment run will go about 6 weeks then drop it and up the cypPhill wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pmI have used it both with and without testosterone
I didn't notice much difference.
However, it is difficult for me to control estro with this king, perhaps for this reason, better without test or at low doses.
If you can tolerate sides, this is definitely a great mass builder.
Join us on Facebook!
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Phill
- Posts: 1648
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:59 pm
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
I hope you will make a logA.font817 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:50 pmI’m going to be trying it with low dose Cyp 200mg thinking my ment run will go about 6 weeks then drop it and up the cypPhill wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pmI have used it both with and without testosterone
I didn't notice much difference.
However, it is difficult for me to control estro with this king, perhaps for this reason, better without test or at low doses.
If you can tolerate sides, this is definitely a great mass builder.
-
MONSTRO
- Posts: 1581
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 11:42 pm
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
Some people skip to the basics and old school compounds but we have alot great new compounds and is very important to rotate them like we do with training and diet to keep improving
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A.font817
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:16 am
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
I do plan on logging it phill will def be interesting for sure!
Join us on Facebook!
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Phill
- Posts: 1648
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:59 pm
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MONSTRO
- Posts: 1581
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 11:42 pm
Re: The king of kings when it comes to test?
We need to put more information about the new compounds ( trestolone , tren base, M1T, Superdrol, DHB, Stenbolone ) . I only use Superdrol and M1T couple of times not enough to give a complete review , but i can tell both work amazing and very quick .