AZChillin’ wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:28 pm So I recently completed my first PCT and used HCG 3xweek for 4 weeks and it caused horrible back acne, none experienced the prior weeks while on Test E and Anadrol.

Any PCT suggestions so I can avoid this outbreak again! Guys

Vision wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 12:02 pm

AZChillin’ wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:28 pm So I recently completed my first PCT and used HCG 3xweek for 4 weeks and it caused horrible back acne, none experienced the prior weeks while on Test E and Anadrol.

Any PCT suggestions so I can avoid this outbreak again! Guys

Yes I have a suggestion, NEVER USE HCG in a PCT again.. HCG should not be used in a pct, this will send estro levels through the roof and between the hormonal fluctuations and dips you are expecances, the increase of E2 levels in most men will peak after 72 hrs, however E2 Cmax levels will be redlined at 24hr after first injection..

When we add HCG during a cycle or blast that is just to keep the chit-chat going with testicular function by way of Leydig cell.. During PCT you wantto use clomid with tamox in place of.. HCG during cycle to keep healthy chit chat, and clomid and tamox for PCT for recovery. When we use HCG during a cycle we most likely already have an AI running in the background, this would assist with estro spikes. However during pct not a lot of guys use AI's, and most often is not necessary depending on the user. I naturally have a higher ratio of aromatases enzymes, therefore I will always employ a script AI (Anastrozole) at .5 E3D of more if needed.

Below is some information I have gathered/collected and interpeted for a better understanding about the functions of HCG and when its necessary to use.
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The Luteinizing hormone and HCG: Distinguishing the unique physiologic roles

June 2018 By Vision PuritySourceLabs.ru

If you're reading this chances are you're researching PED's or you are already using or you may have issues with using it.. When to use it and the ability and the enhancement effects that you may achieve for recovery.

HCG - Let's talk about what it is and how the potentials with recovery works with raising testosterone and the effects of elevated Estrogen

The most basic and common literature available with HCG human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) & Luteinizing hormone (LH) are that they both are integral components of the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis, thus this untimely controls the capability of an organism to reproduce and functionality HCG is what synthetic testosterone is to natural testosterone only mimics luteinizing hormone. Luteinizing hormone is a hormone produced by gonadotropic cells in the anterior pituitary gland also most regularly referred to as “LH” is the hormone that signals the testes to produce testosterone.

So why is HCG most commonly used during a PCT or even during a cycle?

Some major factors rest on the properties that that it may hinder and ultimately minimize the amount of testicular shrinkage during AAS intake or after..
There's a complex interplay in which HCG sends a signal to gonads to try and achieve optimal LH output or signaling at least!
However if and when in the event that you decide to discontinuation the treatment/usage of testosterone "the exogenous hormone" you posses what is known as secondary hypogonadism and/or "PRIMARY" hypogonadism.

What is this Primary hypogonadism to be exact?

This is a last ditch effort or a cascade of events with metabolites, most importantly this will take place when the pituitary gland or hypothalamus when there's a signals/seizes manufacturing of testosterone or decreasing in a great amount, in fact in almost all cases 75-100% hindrance!

Therefore to implement the use of HCG in such instances is pivotal intended to help achieve LH levels to possible restore or function back to a healthy and stable producing enlivenment on you're own, of course with the assistance, and sometimes multiple applications is necessary, but blood work will indicate if that is important.. It is highly suggested base on data and anecdote reports to only employ HCG during PCT if someone has difficulties recovering from years of cycling, using HCG during cycle is the better option.

Right about now your most likely asking yourself exactly "How effective is HCG and is it for me"?

This has been a cloaked topic over the years with regurgitated bro-science vs real actual clinical findings, and over the years specialists have emphasize the truth of an assertion or importance, especially one contrary to what might be expected or what has been asserted by others to be misleading, supporting real actual therapeutic advantages, while others claim it to not be necessary (in some instances that holds some truth, but this is not a one size firs all way of life).. Doses and protocols will vary from one to the next, the kinetic profile under clinical investigation/studies shown administration with certain dosages may yield different toxicological profiles for the same users, some reaching supraphysiological serum testosterone levels and some reaching within the gold standard text book parameters, but this will vary with administered route

Some fast take home notes: Whether IM or sub-Q and individual-sensitivities, age, genetics and metabolites that are presence and the cascade of events that transpire with signaling, activation and deactivation of transcelluar groups will all yield different results, keep in mind that all HORMONES are "chemical messengers" that relay messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..individual metabolization ratio with the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events.


Estorgen and HCG ....

First and foremost, one must ask themselves or through prior AAS experiences knowing if they possess a greater affinity with the aromatase enzyme, in which this converts the estrogen ratio into circulation, as HCG can induce elevated estrogen..Starting at 250ius x 2 a week is MORE than sufficient in most cases and can/will avoid destination with greater response, and less chances of a shift in estrogen..Bare in mind that HCG is just as detrimental as AAS with elivating estrogen levels,and it can activate the ER/PR receptors inducing glandular duct agitation and activation causing gynocomastia thus it's pivotal and highly suggested to utilize AI's (aromatsa inhibators) to suppress the conversion ratio while providing the effects with desired added advantage to continue his treatment to stimulate LH and Testosterone production without the interference or fear of activating ER's or experiences estrogen side effects..Using a serm such as Tamoxifen is ideal and a great lock and key method type binding agent for the ER's as a agonists and antagonists..

Baseline bloods, pre-prior and post is a great indicator to keep personal notes on where you were, where you went and where you may be heading and if you in fact fully recovered!

Added bonus: For those that may experience a sudden loss in libido during cycle or blast - HCG can temporarily increase almost anyone's libido. However, after your body gets adjusts to HCG or you decrease or cease your dosage, the glands that produce testosterone are no longer stimulated, therefore utilizing it for this particular reason should be done with intervals, blast and repeat when need..Low dose 250ius can achieve almost dramatic effects for anyone, and some report libido stimulation last or staying recovered for long duration's.

Vision wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 12:16 pm Be sure to get blood work, I would suggest using some tamox to help block any ER's that could be found throughout a lot of the skeletal tissue, ER's can be found in cells, tissues, fat cells, you name it.

Try using basic acne targeting treatments in the main time to help elevate new formulating acne while suppressing existing flare ups.
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Some more info for you on how to target acne..

By Vision Team P.S.L.

Before I waste time talking about what can trigger acne, like "estro levels", bacteria, hormonal fluctuations etc etc, I'll get right to the point and talk about treatment..Your treatment will be done in phases and I promise it will have amazing results..

Go to a local Dollar Tree, or Dollar General (whatever there's a main/huge dollar store chain in your area)..You can purchase products there for pennies on dollar compared to name brands that range from 4-8$ at leading stores.. Major savings, plus you can bath in these due to how inexpensive they are..

First - You'll need Salicylic acid wash, there's actual a few different types when it concerns the product carrier vehicle..There's a cleanse white cream (body wash) & there's liquid soup body wash salicylic acid.. You'll need both as I will explain a bit later..
Secondly - Pears Glycerin soap.. This is not made with any synthetic compounds,dyes,perfumes nor does it possess anti-bacteria agents (these are not good for the skin as they will kill off good and bad bac,leaving exposure for more acne onset, there needs to be a balance)..
Pears glycerin soap is actually over 200 years old, and is one of the best products you can use for your skin. It doesn't over dry your face which can trigger your dermis/glands to produce more sebum to accommodate the excessive dryness, this is NOT what you want..The healthy balance with pears glycerin/transparent soap has been proven and derma-tested, and highly recommend over conventional synthetic soaps. (Avoid dish soaps or other soaps claiming to be heavy grease removal properties, these can induce greater outbreaks like I stated above, by way of hindering the balance of good/bad bacteria and by over drying)..
Thirdly - apple cider viniger - Apple cider vinegar is so great for curing acne because it returns the acidity to our skin and restores that acid mantle. It also kills bad bacteria, removes excess dirt, oil and dissolves dead skin cells that may clog pores causing sebum to back up and formulate a cystic like acne.
Fourth - you'll need non-petroleum replenishing aloe vera, body gel for damaged dry or sun burn skin..( this will come into effect when using apple cider vinegar and 10% benzoly peroxide, which can burn and over dry the skin at times, it soothes, replenishes and restores the balance in the skin without causing more brake-outs on the effected area, plus its great for after sun-tanning/beds)

Below is a pic of what the products/brands may look like..If you notice the small travel size spray bottles, this you can use by filling with apple cider vinegar and use while out on the road..Easy, just spray effected area and/or cotton ball and rub area gently avoiding and small abrasions or irritation (avoid rubbing excessively, because small nicks and scratches or abrasions can trap bad bacteria and cause further unwanted acne)

AM shower

1) When bathing use the pears soap ( avoid rags or bushes/sponges etc etc, due to trapped bacteria that may linger, and to avoid skin abrasions), wash thoroughly, and repeatedly until skin feels squeaky clean ( I mean this literally)

2) Apply Salicylic acid body wash immediately after and repeat the same wash principles with the pears soap..Allow this to sit on the skin without washing away for several mins, during this phase use Salicylic acid cream wash (non petroleum) and apply to acne areas and let sit..Rinse after several min.

3) Using a new clean towel to dry off effected areas first before the rest of your body..Once out of the shower and full dry, apply the 10% benzoly peroxide to generously to effected areas and around, rub in until white color dissipates..You can apply more with a paste base for areas that wont be seen!

4) During the day utilize the apple cider vinegar with spray bottle to effected areas, let it air cool, do NOT wipe it dry..It may tingle or even sting, this is a good thing..

5) (late afternoon) Use a mixture of 10% benzoly &non-petroleum replenishing aloe vera, body gel on effected areas.. You'll need to mix the both in palm of hands, just a little bit this time and spread/rub on effected areas..

6) Repeat step 1 and 4 before bed..

( During the night if you awake, have the apple cider vinegar bottle on your night stand, and spray area and let air cool)
Do this for 3-5 days.. If your acne doesn't begin to clear up you can become more aggressive with step 4 by employing it multiple times, with the addition of a 10min tanning bed session, however tanning beds are a hub for bac and are known to increase/agitate more acne..You could also clean your bathtub with bleach (killing all bac), then fill with the hottest water you can stand and soak with Epsom-salt for 20mins)..

If you find this treatment to be ineffective, I would suggest contacting your physician and requesting a script for Bactrim, this is a SUPER POWERFUL antibiotic that has amazing properties for targeting the dermis layers and ridding almost all acne, with lasting effects..

One last tip, I like using a daily cover-up that will target acne as a treatment option, but doesn't trigger an onset of more, however it needs to be Salicylic acid based..Below is one that I use for spot treatment to not only treat the acne at its spot, but to somewhat hide it, and give me that sense of confidence back without feeling like there's a huge beacon light shining on my face for everyone to see..You'll need to find what shade fits you best.. I have a darker skin tone so 70+ is what I use..

Last but no least - Avoid these facial pad scrubs, like I mentioned prior about micro skin abrasions and irritation, these are notorious for being a culprit to prolonging the unwanted stay of acne, by allowing bad bacteria to penetrate the opened areas and formulate NEW acne.. However, if you use these, I soak them in my very own cock-tail, apple cider vinegar and use them to "dab" the area, or as a one time fast pass over an area that may be healing and has some excesses oil..These can be your worst enemy, or if used correctly, a great addition to your acne fighting arsenal if used sparingly..

My closing statement, I would opt for Bactrim and use it during this treatment for faster results...Antibiotics can yield wonders when combating acne and at times they possess long lasting effects, this is merely my protocol and what works for me, I've recommending to many others with great success..You can alter and tweak due to skin sensitivity if need be.. Good luck!