Newbie question re: HCG as part of a cycle

[MONSTRO]

Using HCG during testosterone use is not worth because exogenous test is so powerful that will supress your natural test anyway

[Jozifp103]

You are right that HCG will not increase natural testosterone levels during a cycle. But that is not why we use HCG during the cycle...we use it during the cycle because it keeps the Leydig cells in the testicles plump and prevents them from shriveling up and becoming inactive. Once the Leydig cells shrink due to inactivity, they become much harder to "wake back up" which makes it harder to recover during PCT. Using HCG will prevent the Leydig cells from shrinking and will make recovery easier during PCT.

Yes make sense for people that run PCT , because otherwise HCG always wort to recover yout balls and get your wife pregnant . See Dave Palumbo do cycle non stop many years and in one year he recovers and now have 3 kids .

I see your point as well, Monstro, and I have seen Palumbo's videos on fertility protocols and PCT. I think what you originally suggested is something I will be doing once I am able to get on a proper TRT regimen. I also would hate to lose/prevent any possible gains I may see as Darren had mentioned to me. This being my first time, I might be erroring too much on the side of safety because I haven't had a kid yet. This is the primary reason I want to understand how to use HCg and do my PCT properly.

I will certainly be taking the advice offered by you all and rework my plan a bit. I had ASSuMEd that it was wiser to pin HCG in smaller amounts more frequently along with Test in order to help maintain the most consistent levels possible, but sounds like my assumption was overkill. Thanks again, all!

Yea the problem with stuff like this is there isn't much actual research out there to go by. It's mostly anecdotal. For a young guy like yourself who may want kids someday it's harder because you really don't want to do something that could ruin your chances of having kids in the future.

The thing with HCG is, it's suppressive but at the same time it's helpful for recovery. It makes no sense when you hear it but I can explain in more detail if you'd like...just let me know.

However you need intra-testicular testosterone in order to produce sperm. HCG may not help much with circulating testosterone on cycle, but it will help with intra-testicular testosterone (testosterone produced and lingering in the testes). This intra-testicular testosterone is what provides the necessary environmental conditions for sperm to be produced. Sperm cannot be produced in an environment lacking in testosterone. If you let your intra-testicular testosterone deplete, spermatogenesis will cease. I'd rather not have that happen then have to restart it every time. I'd feel more comfortable just keeping that process working the whole time.

Here's what I would do. Run HCG at 500iu per week split 250iu twice a week. Stop the HCG the same time you stop the androgens 2-3 weeks before PCT. This will give the HCG time to clear your system as HCG is actually suppressive and counteracts PCT drugs. Then start your PCT 2-3 weeks post cycle (or longer depending on the compounds/doses). The HCG should make recovery easier as you can skip the step where you have to re-awaken your testes and get them back to size.

[DueDiligence]

Yes make sense for people that run PCT , because otherwise HCG always wort to recover yout balls and get your wife pregnant . See Dave Palumbo do cycle non stop many years and in one year he recovers and now have 3 kids .

I see your point as well, Monstro, and I have seen Palumbo's videos on fertility protocols and PCT. I think what you originally suggested is something I will be doing once I am able to get on a proper TRT regimen. I also would hate to lose/prevent any possible gains I may see as Darren had mentioned to me. This being my first time, I might be erroring too much on the side of safety because I haven't had a kid yet. This is the primary reason I want to understand how to use HCg and do my PCT properly.

I will certainly be taking the advice offered by you all and rework my plan a bit. I had ASSuMEd that it was wiser to pin HCG in smaller amounts more frequently along with Test in order to help maintain the most consistent levels possible, but sounds like my assumption was overkill. Thanks again, all!

Yea the problem with stuff like this is there isn't much actual research out there to go by. It's mostly anecdotal. For a young guy like yourself who may want kids someday it's harder because you really don't want to do something that could ruin your chances of having kids in the future.

The thing with HCG is, it's suppressive but at the same time it's helpful for recovery. It makes no sense when you hear it but I can explain in more detail if you'd like...just let me know.

However you need intra-testicular testosterone in order to produce sperm. HCG may not help much with circulating testosterone on cycle, but it will help with intra-testicular testosterone (testosterone produced and lingering in the testes). This intra-testicular testosterone is what provides the necessary environmental conditions for sperm to be produced. Sperm cannot be produced in an environment lacking in testosterone. If you let your intra-testicular testosterone deplete, spermatogenesis will cease. I'd rather not have that happen then have to restart it every time. I'd feel more comfortable just keeping that process working the whole time.

Here's what I would do. Run HCG at 500iu per week split 250iu twice a week. Stop the HCG the same time you stop the androgens 2-3 weeks before PCT. This will give the HCG time to clear your system as HCG is actually suppressive and counteracts PCT drugs. Then start your PCT 2-3 weeks post cycle (or longer depending on the compounds/doses). The HCG should make recovery easier as you can skip the step where you have to re-awaken your testes and get them back to size.

This is invaluable information, Jozif. Thank you! I originally thought that I would have to stay on HCG through the beginning of my PCT, so I am very glad to know this now. I will also be waiting at 3-4 weeks before PCT as I'm using Test Enanthate and read in several places that it is best to wait 4-5 half-lives before starting PCT.

[Jozifp103]

I see your point as well, Monstro, and I have seen Palumbo's videos on fertility protocols and PCT. I think what you originally suggested is something I will be doing once I am able to get on a proper TRT regimen. I also would hate to lose/prevent any possible gains I may see as Darren had mentioned to me. This being my first time, I might be erroring too much on the side of safety because I haven't had a kid yet. This is the primary reason I want to understand how to use HCg and do my PCT properly.

I will certainly be taking the advice offered by you all and rework my plan a bit. I had ASSuMEd that it was wiser to pin HCG in smaller amounts more frequently along with Test in order to help maintain the most consistent levels possible, but sounds like my assumption was overkill. Thanks again, all!

Yea the problem with stuff like this is there isn't much actual research out there to go by. It's mostly anecdotal. For a young guy like yourself who may want kids someday it's harder because you really don't want to do something that could ruin your chances of having kids in the future.

The thing with HCG is, it's suppressive but at the same time it's helpful for recovery. It makes no sense when you hear it but I can explain in more detail if you'd like...just let me know.

However you need intra-testicular testosterone in order to produce sperm. HCG may not help much with circulating testosterone on cycle, but it will help with intra-testicular testosterone (testosterone produced and lingering in the testes). This intra-testicular testosterone is what provides the necessary environmental conditions for sperm to be produced. Sperm cannot be produced in an environment lacking in testosterone. If you let your intra-testicular testosterone deplete, spermatogenesis will cease. I'd rather not have that happen then have to restart it every time. I'd feel more comfortable just keeping that process working the whole time.

Here's what I would do. Run HCG at 500iu per week split 250iu twice a week. Stop the HCG the same time you stop the androgens 2-3 weeks before PCT. This will give the HCG time to clear your system as HCG is actually suppressive and counteracts PCT drugs. Then start your PCT 2-3 weeks post cycle (or longer depending on the compounds/doses). The HCG should make recovery easier as you can skip the step where you have to re-awaken your testes and get them back to size.

This is invaluable information, Jozif. Thank you! I originally thought that I would have to stay on HCG through the beginning of my PCT, so I am very glad to know this now. I will also be waiting at 3-4 weeks before PCT as I'm using Test Enanthate and read in several places that it is best to wait 4-5 half-lives before starting PCT.

My pleasure. And yes 3-4 weeks is also fine because like I said it depends on the compounds and doses. I would rather start PCT a tad late and be sure that the hormones have cleared my system rather than start too early and waste the first week or two because there are still suppressive hormones counteracting the PCT.